Well, Christmas is coming and it’s a little past the worst day of the week so I figured I’d throw a few tales out there.
A regular customer called me looking for some stuff and made an order to ship to an FFL near him in the tobacco fields of North Carolina. He told me which FFL he wanted me to ship to and I hadn’t heard from the licensee so I gave them a call.
Me: Howdy, I need an FFL for this order for Billy Ray Valentine.
FFL: What is it?
Me: It’s a Dead Air Mask 22
FFL: WE DONT HAVE NO CLASS TREE LICENSE HERE AND WE AINT GUNNA
Me: There’s no such thing as a class three….
FFL: YOU TAKE YOUR DEVILS MERCHANDISE ELSEWHERE. WE ARE A SPORTING GOODS SHOP NOT ONE OF THEM PLACES THAT SELLS THOSE KINDS OF GUNS
Me: ….
Welcome to Fuddville. Population, me.
I do some searching and the customer lines up an FFL with an SOT and an electronic form 3 clears in 12 hours. His stuff ships out without a problem. Smooth. I like it.
Guy calls me up on Black Friday. He wants the new Kel Tec CP33. I tell him I have one that’s on allocation en route.
He says he’ll take it and gives me his address so I can deliver it. I tell him no way.
His response: I own a lot of guns and most have been brought right to my door but its no problem i understand i have 2 people dropping off gun tomorrow a m4 and a snub 38 have a good night sir and sorry to waste your time
Me: So is that a yes or a no?
Response: Ill pass thanks i did not know i had to pick it up
(I facepalm)
Me: Is there any reason you can’t make it over?
Him: dying from cancer i cant move that well but like i said have a good night sorry for bothering you ill send my money else where
Me: If you can make it to the parking lot, I don’t think ATF would have a problem.
I get no response.
Last week I threw one of my personal guns up for sale on one of the forums, not from my business because I really do not shoot much 308 anymore. My LMT MWS finds a home rather quickly. The guy up in North Carolina mails me a cashiers check and information on the LGS he wants the gun shipped to. There’s a business card for the gun store and their slogan is “FANTASTIC PRICES! FANTASTIC GUNS! FANTASTIC SERVICE!”
I do a quick google search and it’s a small gun store that has a bunch of google reviews. I’ll have to check them out the next time I’m in Charlotte
Since it’s a personal sale it’s not on the books, I crate it up — slap a shipping label onto it and ship it out.
My phone starts blowing up on Black Friday. The dealer is screaming at the buyer. The buyer is screaming at me. I check my email. Here’s how the convo goes. The buyer is the recipient and I am CC’d on the correspondence.
NC: Unfortunately we are running into some issues with Will cc’d, and we are unable to transfer this rifle at this time. We have requested standard information from him that proves that he or his company is properly licensed to sell firearms, and unfortunately, he does not want to provide it to us and we are not sure why.
Therefore, if we are unable to get his info soon we will have to ship it back to the sender’s address if he is unwilling to send some basic info to prove he is licensed to sell firearms. I apologize for the inconvenience but we have to ensure as a company we are receiving guns from companies that are legally able to sell firearms and right now I am not sure he is legally able to send firearms.
Me: You don’t need to verify I’m legally able to sell firearms. Anyone can sell firearms as long as they are shipped to an FFL.
NC: Will, All we want to be able to do is verify you are legally able to sell guns via your FFL. We follow the law. It is unlawful to sell firearms without an FFL. We only accept firearms if they are shipped from an FFL as a result. Your name and address are not sufficient to verify you are legally licensed to sell firearms. If you are unable to provide an FFL by Monday I will be forced to send this back to a FFL near you where you will have to pick it up from them.
I apologize for the caution, but if we can’t verify legality, we cannot prove we are receiving this shotgun legally. Please let us know what you want to do and if I don’t hear from you by Monday I will let you know which dealer we are sending this shotgun back to in your area.
Me: You can’t send it back to a dealer in this area without linking up with another dealer in this area. I know all the FFL’s and I’m telling them to reject the delivery. Do you hear how dumb this conversation is?
NC: I’m doing this because I HAVE TO PROTECT MYSELF. this policy of not accepting firearms from non FFL’s exists because I NEED TO PROTECT MYSELF. Federal law says we have to do A, B and C and we do A, B, C and D because I’m not going to lose my license.
Me: then what’s the problem here? Just log it in your book and call the customer and tell him to pick up his gun. I’m forwarding this message chain to your IOI.
NC: Will, We go above the general requirement you stated and it is our store requirement to verify you are a legal FFL.
We do NOT accept private party firearms since that’s not legal.
We have to protect ourselves legally and we do so by by ez checking and filing a copy of your FFL in store to accept any online transfers.
We must ensure we are taking in a firearm from a legal entity. This is a standard practice your tone is not building confidence you are a legal FFL dealer.
This is non-negotiable, it is our policy, and if you don’t want to send it to us that is ok, but we will not accept this transfer, and we will have to send it back to a dealer in your area. We do not have any comfort you are legally operating and I have included (NC’s local ATF IOI) who works for the ATF in this email thread.
Please advise, do you have a preference where we should send this firearm back to?
Me: So let me get this straight. You are SO legally concerned I am breaking the law selling and shipping friearms that you’re going to send the gun back to me so that I can continue to break the law and sell and ship firearms?
NC: I am shipping the gun back AT MY EXPENSE. Now where do you want it delivered?
Me: To your customer would be nice…..
NC: I’m choosing a transfer dealer to ship it near you if you don’t pick one.
Me: If you don’t want to touch it, why not just ship it at your expense to another dealer in your town and send your customer there?
NC: It’s going back to you. I have no proof that you are who you say you are and an email or a phone call isn’t going to cut it. As I stated several times, I follow the law and under my policy of businesses and record keeping it is not legal to accept this gun and to enter it into my electronic bound book.
If you won’t provide return details, then I will not accept this transfer, and will be shipping the gun to a place where you can pick it up in your town. I can not send it anywhere where you aren’t the one who picks it up. It can be direct to you if u provide information on your FFL, if not, its going to dealer near you and you can pick it up from them.
When I open back up on Tuesday its getting boxed up and shipped if I don’t have the information I am requesting. I will send you the tracking number once it ships.
Me: It’s a PERSONAL ITEM. It’s not on the books. What’s the problem with logging it in with name and address? Your book can accept a name/address, can’t it? Or is your system that pain in the ass?
NC: I will send you the tracking on Tuesday
Me: If you’re going to the expense of shipping it, why not just ship it to another FFL in your town where Jimmy can get it?
NC: Because I believe you are illegally running guns
Me: What is so illegal about sending a firearm to an FFL? If I were illegal, it would ship direct to
Jimmy and not you. More to the point, if you’re convinced I’m operating illegally — if you send me back the gun, wouldn’t you be aiding and abetting or as the AUSA would call it “furthering and enabling a known criminal enterprise?”
NC: You are not allowed to privately sell firearms online without a ffl.
Me: Have you heard of Snipers Hide? AR15.com? FALFiles? Uzitalk?
That’s not correct AT ALL.
A ton if firearms are sold without an FFL online. They just wind up AT an FFL such as yourself to comply with the provisions of 18 USC 922
NC: Which are transferred from state to state how? Through FFL’s. You are not a licensed FFL and I can not accept state to state transfers from non ffl holder which you are not as far as I can see. That is illegal. Stop asking me to deviate from my policy and THE LAW. I’m done arguing, you are totally screwing your customer, and I will send you the tracking number and location where you can pick this up unless you decide to come to your senses and send me where you want this gun shipped.
Me: There is no requirement to ship through a licensee. The requirement under 18 USC 922 is that firearms be shipped TO a licensee. There is a difference between shipping through and shipping to. You should check with your IOI contact you mentioned.
You CAN accept state to state transfers from non-FFL holders, you should read the regulation book. it’s not a prohibited activity and any IOI can tell you that.
If you are afraid of being written up by ATF and going to jail for not following the regulation book, you should get a better understanding of the regulation book. Just saying.
NC: I’m not putting this in the bound book and shipping it back to you.
Me: Just so you’re aware, by KNOWING AND WILFULLY saying you are REFUSING to follow the law (ATF requires you to enter any firearms acquired into your bound book w/in 48 hours, but you knew that already being a stalwart of compliance…) is an A/D violation.
Also, KNOWING AND WILFULLY sending a firearm back to me without a copy of my FFL is another violation.
And I’m also sending this to your IOI.
(I forward the entire email chain to the guy’s ATF IOI. IOI calls me back this morning and says he’ll educate the licensee.)
Guy walks in the door this afternoon. He wants to work a trade for a Glock 17 Gen 5, which I normally retail out for about $550.
He’s got a CZ75 and a Glock 26 and asks if I want to trade.
Me: Two for one? Sure.
Him: No I mean you’d pick one.
Me: Look, both those guns — you’re looking at $400 being all the money on each. Why am I going to work a trade on one and make less?
Him: Well CZ’s sell!
Me: CZ’s are weird. I have friends that like CZ’s and I have friends that like to call CZ owners lead paint wall licking short bus riding special children. They’re not as marketable and sellable as a Glock or an HK
Him: So lets trade, I’ll give you my CZ and this! (pulls out used Sig Romeo 5)
Me: That’s a $200 optic new, $50 street. Why a I going to trade for $450 in merch when I can sell a glock all day long for $550?
Him: Well one of your customers might want a CZ.
Me: That I can buy new for the same price as you’re asking me to trade.
Him: Well what about my Glock 26?
Me: Gen 4 or 5?
Him: Three
Me: $400 is all the money, 350 is street I’d be into it for 200.
Him: I’m not going to be able to do that trade
Me: then sell your 26 yourself for $400. Sell the Romeo for $50 and then add $100 and you got a Glock 17 gen 5!
Him: I don’t have $100. I just lost my job
(I look down at the Mercedes key on his keychain. $50 says he’s got a C class)
Me: Well I don’t know what to tell you. All of these trades make me money but they don’t make you money. Why don’t you sell your stuff yourself and just get cash then and pay me $550 for a new 17 with night sights?
Him: Well it’s a lot easier to trade, I’d rather find someone with a Glock 17 and trade them a 26 even.
Me: But the work is finding someone who wants a 17 and at the same time wants a 26. That’s not easy.
Him: Yes it is, everyone wants a Glock 17!
Me: And everyone wants a 26, but they’re not going to swap a 17 for one unless there’s a really compelling reason.
Him: Look, I’m in this as a hobby and you’re into this to make money. I’m happy to let you make money but I just can’t take this kind of hit. You’re offering me $200 on a glock you tell me you’re going to sell for $350. You’re offering me $50 on an optic you’re going to sell for $100…..
Me: I’m offering you even less than $50, $50 is street. I’d have to be into that for $25.
Him: This is too big of a hit for me. I can’t really afford that. I just want a 17.
Me: Well what else do you have to trade? Or are you willing to consign? I could sell that stuff and put cash towards a 17 but you’re paying me for that too.
Him: I have this AR15 I could trade even with the optic for your Glock 17!
(He pulls out a DIY homebuild Anderson lower / PSA upper AR15)
Me: And what do you want for this?
Him: even trade for the Glock 17
Me; That’s supposed to sell for $550?
Him: Yeah!
Me: No. AR15’s, especially PSA and Anderson AR15’s are gonna sell $350 on the street which means I’m going to be into them for less.
Him: Well what about a used Glock?
Me: Cheapest used glock 17 I have is $425. I even trade you for that rifle, I’m right back to selling that gun for the same $425 in a flooded market.
Him: Oh well okay thanks for your time.
He walks out and I hear the Navistar diesel engine of the UPS fleet roll up. I walk out to meet Larry with my handtruck, he’s got 15,000 rds of Geco 9mm I’m blowing out at $165/thousand on the way in. I see the guy get in his C class Mercedes out of the corner of my eye and giggle a little inside.
(Three hours later)
Him: I have a question for you?
Me: go
Him: What happens if I use a gun to protect myself?
Me: What do you mean?
Him: Well what happens to the gun?
Me: It’s typically examined by the cops as evidence and once you’re cleared it comes out of property and is returned to you
Him: What happens if a gun has no serial number?
Me : What do you mean?
Him: Well I found a Glock 17. I traded a guy the Romeo 5 optic and the CZ for it and I had to add $50.
Me: Okay and?
Him: The gun has no serial number on it. I can’t find the serial number. Is that a problem?
Me: Well it depends.
Him: on what?
Me: well if it was ground off or defaced, that’s a federal offense and you’re going to go to jail for having a firearm with altered serial numbers.
Him: On theres numbers on there, I just don’t know what they mean.
Me: What does it say?
Him: How well do you know glocks?
Me: Advanced armorer, decades plus of experience selling and shooting them, what’s it marked on the frame?
Him: What does P80 mean? That’s all the frame says.
(I have to stifle laughter)
Me: You got a homebuilt Glock 17 off a polymer 80 frame.
Him: Oh. Okay. What would it cost me to get a factory glock frame?
Me: Complete? New?
Him: Complete. New.
Me: About $350.
Him: WHAT? I should just buy a used 17 complete off you for $400 instead.
Me: Yeah. That would be best bet.
Him: What do you think I can sell this one for?
Me: In a good market?
Him: Yeah
Me: Without seeing it $250 sounds typical for a complete DIY not a glock 17 glock 17.
Him: But I traded a like new in box CZ75 for this. And a Romeo 5.
Me: Don’t forget the $50
Him: Yeah…
Me: Have a merry Christmas!
As I hang up I suddenly feel a lot better about accidentally buying a left handed shotgun.
This is fleeting as on my way to Fedex I hit a sheet metal screw in the road and have to change my tire in the 7–11 parking lot.
I’m typing this from the tire place wifi. 4 new tires and an alignment: $457.
Fuck Tuesdays.
